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Luddite

Dealing With The Kob

25 posts in this topic

OK, i'm finding it really tough to bring down the British fleet.

There are two major problems i'm finding;

1. Shields. Their medium and large ships have lots of these.

2. AA. Damn. The British AA just stops my rockets cold, especially as his bigger ships run with escorts. At longer ranges i'm relying on rockets but they just don't get through.

I've got various options for available but currently at 1000pts i'm running the following fleet:

4x DFA-170 bombers - excellent all rounders and the bombs are brutal

2x Ika squids - awesome heavy ship killers, but hard to get into the right place

3x Tanuki gunships - solid but i've found them to be bullet magnets and they get pounded badly

1x Sokatsu (with CAP (5)) - Good solid warrior, especially with the Commodore aboard

6x Uwatsu frigates - I've found these little ships to be really useful little wasps, but they die in droves. I tend to use them to strip of small ship screens to open the way for the Ikas

5x Tiny flyer, Torpedo bombers - cruiser killers but one shot weapons

So, anyone have any advice to overcome the British behemoths?

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Use ika on large ships. Concentrate rockets on mediums usually works and the ika take on the large stuff. Use the bombers and small class to hunt smaller targets.

You also need to work out your squadrons better. 6 uwatsu isn't good because your either doing a full squadron and a under strength or 2 under strength squadrons. They work best in 4s. Remember to link turret and broadside cause both are secondary. Same with bombers, squadrons of 3 and use points of 4th to get more frigates.

If you are having hard time using ika, try a second battleship or a war gyro. For firepower and do a slugging match. Another option is a carrier to have more torpedo TF and reload spent ones. More flying units cuts out one of the KoB specialty, torpedoes. Also flying into RB1 makes them susceptible only to AA where they can drop bombs to ignore shields.

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Yup, full squadrons of Uwatsu. 4 of them linking everything in RB1 is 16 dice. That'll hurt.

KoB ships are tough until they take a couple of points of damage, and then their multiple turrets really start to feel the effect of hits. In the late game, you're relying more on rockets and he's relying more on torpedoes, and it's easier to screen torpedoes than rockets. Early game I'm using gunnery against big ships and rockets against medium-small; later on the rockets go after whoever has depleted AA. Throwing rockets against an escorted capital with full AA is just not going to work out very well.

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4x DFA-170 bombers - excellent all rounders and the bombs are brutal

Actually I think you can only take 3 DFA bombers in 1 squadron, or are you taking 2 squadrons of 2? I wouldn't do that one.

Furthermore: personally I wouldn't take uwatsu frigates. You're up against the best frigates in the game IMO (KoB Attacker frigates start their major pounding in RB2 instead of RB1). You need something to counter this: Fujin Corvettes who use speed to take away Attacker initiative or the excelent Yurgi Destroyer, both in maximum sized squadrons.

I would also take the Inari instead of the bombers if you can spare the points, but again only in maximum squadron sizes.

Last but not least: I would prefer to use a Hachiman DN instead of the Sokotsu BB. I know people say that it doesn't match up to the enemy DN, but it has more firepower than a Sokotsu and stays alive longer even if it can't go toe to toe. Use it to threaten everything else and have it take away some initiative. It's like an upgraded BB if you will.

Cheers,

Falconer

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.

Yup, full squadrons of Uwatsu. 4 of them linking everything in RB1 is 16 dice. That'll hurt.

Isn't it 19 dice at RB1 (5+2)+ (2+2) + (2+2) +(2+2)

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I think overs have said it really !!

Only take max size units a choice between 1 model short and not taking the unit I say don't take the unit !!

One reason the nak does so bad is most use then in 3 model units and not 4 !! They work a lot better as 4 but still not worth the points sadly

Disruption generators really hurt the kob now

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Sorry panda but Paul has it right I believe ! You don't half a ad more than once

Edit

Looking at example 14 on page 62 you do seem to be right though ! God that's going to change our games and make them a lot slower and maths intensive !!

Tokunator likes this

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Indeed but using the simpler system we have found games very balanced and have wondered why every one else was having balance issues !! Maybe the simpler system is the answer to restore balance !! It's very fast and easy to use !! I can see applying this system is seriously going to slow some games down :( its not about loosing dice that concerns me its game speed and simplicity

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Use full squadrons like the others have said.

Do you really need 2x Ikas or is one enough? Taking just 1x Ika will free up another 100pt of fire power that won't spend a couple of turns submerged.

Do you need a 5x fighter CAP on the Sokotsu? Or would they be better as a TF torpedo squadron?

Use your long range rockets to target his smalls in the first few turns. DFA bombers are great at this since they're non-capital and flying means normal LOS rules don't apply so you can shoot any smalls he has hiding behind other ships or islands. Keep them in RB3 as much as possible. After that obscure them, push them forward and bomb stuff. They're a good counter to enemy TF as well (6AA each) and are a decent boarding threat.

I like to push my TF torpedo squadrons up quickly and use them to clear a path - either blow ships up or put damage on his medium/large models which reduces its AA against your rocket attacks. If you're quick about it you might be able to fly off the board and re-arm.

KoB models also suffer more from lost HP than we do making their turrets less effective. Concentrate fire to get some damage in early on - this is also the only way to get through their mass of shields.

Use terrain or shielding to preserve your Uwatsu's into RB1/2 - they'll pay you back for taking such good care of them.

Maybe use your Tanuki's as a shock force moving forward and shielding your other units while they soften things up with their torps and turrets, then pull them back and use them as long range rocket platforms late in the game. Being bullet magnets is a good thing since they draw fire from other stuff and have the CR and HP to take it.

Stay in RB3/4 picking on his smalls and trying to put some damage on his mediums - this also allows you to move your Sokotsu a bit closer to support your other ships. After that rush into RB1 - you don't want to hang around in RB2 with KoB coz they'll shred you.

Stay out of their fore and P/S torpedo lines as much as possible.

The Guardian generator may mean that he clumps his ships together. Use this to your advantage to clear out any isolated units and out manoeuvre him (using our greater speed and sharp turn).

And don't forget to board - we're pretty good at it and, against large/mediums, is most of the time quicker than shooting at something until it sinks.

Sorry for the ramble and if I've repeated things that others have said or that you know/use already.........good luck!!

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Indeed but using the simpler system we have found games very balanced and have wondered why every one else was having balance issues !! Maybe the simpler system is the answer to restore balance !! It's very fast and easy to use !! I can see applying this system is seriously going to slow some games down :( its not about loosing dice that concerns me its game speed and simplicity

I actually find it easier. In both cases you need to work out the linked total for the lead ship, and the total for the linking ships, and add them all up. The only difference is that now, the linking ship is half the lead ship always.

5+2 = 7, so lead ship is 7, linking ships are half of 7 times 3.

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My GF uses the most complex fire patterns any man could ever think of, going to be fun watching her face this weekend with new mathematics to juggle with :)

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Looking at the stats in the book, why is the battleship the only ship in their fleet with RB1 torpedos? And why doesn't the DN have a guardian generator and the naval and aerial BB have it? Not complaining to make enemy stronger, but just wondering if anyone has any theories as to why.

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Looking at the stats in the book, why is the battleship the only ship in their fleet with RB1 torpedos? And why doesn't the DN have a guardian generator and the naval and aerial BB have it? Not complaining to make enemy stronger, but just wondering if anyone has any theories as to why.

The Ruler shouldn't have RB1 torpedoes.

The Dread doesn't have a Guardian because originally, none of them had Guardians. They were added in by Spartan around Nov-Dec as part of their general fixes. Among the KoB's many, many problems was the fact that the Ruler was very fragile and had to trade off a turret for every shield generator, and the Eagle was functionally identical to the Illustrious except it didn't carry planes. Spartan fixed both problems by handing out Guardian generators.

The Majesty was and is one of the best ships in the game, it really doesn't need any help.

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The Majesty's statistics in the 1.1 rulebook are a misprint: the P/S Broadsides are supposed to read [6/4/2/-], the Fore Torpedoes [-/9/8/7].

Regarding the Guardian generator, in the Firestorm: Armada rulebook dreadnoughts are described as front line brawlers, whereas battleships are command vessels through and through. I like to apply this little gem of fluff directly to the Dystopian Wars universe as well, which means commanders (having to steer their battle group) will often be placed at the centre of the fleet, thus being able to provide more cover from their defensive generators.

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interesting thing came up in a game against COA our all new small flyers (not tiny flyers) wave after wave can pretty much guarantee a derelict ship of any type !!!! or use as a second wave attack to finish of what ever a squid some how failed to do !!!! advantage of the small flyers is there fast and brutal in assault...

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So my group, including and especially me, are all newbies, but here is my 2 cents from playing against our resident KoB player. Rockets suck against their amazing AA. but their Frigates suck compared to ours. I rush their frigates with my own, and focus fire their smalls with my large/mediums. With luck, I can wipe out all 2-3 squads of smalls in round 1. Our frigates are just that much better than theirs. I then turn my attention on their cruisers. Use Gunnery to lower the AA, and then use rockets. Rockets suck against their high AA, and will generally never make it through. Once you have 2 hits though, rockets sail through on a regular basis. Fires make prizing the ships easy. Prize is 2x Victory Points! I use my Ika to split their force. Not many players are willing to sail towards the Ika.

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So my group, including and especially me, are all newbies, but here is my 2 cents from playing against our resident KoB player. Rockets suck against their amazing AA. but their Frigates suck compared to ours. I rush their frigates with my own, and focus fire their smalls with my large/mediums. With luck, I can wipe out all 2-3 squads of smalls in round 1. Our frigates are just that much better than theirs.

In RB3, Uwatsu has 2 gun dice, Attacker has 2 + 2 torpedoes. Attacker wins by a lot.

Uwatsu throws 4 gun dice in RB2. Attacker throws 4 + 4 dice torpedo attack. Attacker wins by a lot.

In RB1, Uwatsu hits for 7, Attacker hits for 6. Marginal benefit to the Uwatsu, if it can hold RB1.

An Uwatsu is basically trading an extra point of CR for a serious firepower deficit in RB2 and 3, half of which isn't affected by damage. In RB1, they're pretty close to equal. The only range band where the Uwatsu has an advantage is RB1, which you have to transit through RB2 and 3 to reach. Even then, having the same DR and 2 hits apiece, a CR bonus is not as significant as you might think.

It's unreasonable to say that the Uwatsu is significantly better than an Attacker. The Uwatsu is good, but you'd have to work pretty hard to convince me that the Attacker isn't the best frigate in the game, although I'd concede that the Arminius is more important to the Prussians than the Attacker is to the British.

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It's unreasonable to say that the Uwatsu is significantly better than an Attacker. The Uwatsu is good, but you'd have to work pretty hard to convince me that the Attacker isn't the best frigate in the game, although I'd concede that the Arminius is more important to the Prussians than the Attacker is to the British.

Don't forget the Attacker squadron throws 8 AA dice at a group of tiny fliers as opposed to the Uwatsu's 4. The Attacker is clearly the superior ship, although the Uwatsu is no slouch. At least it's not an Augusta! ;)

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Don't forget the Attacker squadron throws 8 AA dice at a group of tiny fliers as opposed to the Uwatsu's 4. The Attacker is clearly the superior ship, although the Uwatsu is no slouch. At least it's not an Augusta! ;)

Yeah, I don't want to give the impression that the Uwatsu sucks, because it's a really good ship, and quite a bit better than the CoA frigate or the Augusta. But the Attacker is clearly better.

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