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Grand-Stone

My analyses of our smalls (for naval fights)

54 posts in this topic

Currently none of the squids can attack submerged models.

 

But if they were given the MAR, could they board surface ships while submerged?

The thing now is that when attacking they have to go to the surface and might be counter attacked afterwards.

If they could remain submerged, that would throw them into a compelete different ballpark.

 

If the IKA could remain submerged after boarding, I would pick it any day.

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When it comes to smalls, our smalls are definitively on par with other nations smalls. But I hope some general considerations are done. For me it seems like smalls based on boarding actions are good as is. Reading the forums, there are a lot of people which fear the corvette charge. But on the other hand, my experience also is that smalls die first. They charge in and die.  Often it's a tendency in games for smalls to be the least powerful, and the biggest be the most powerful. Dystopian wars isn't that bad in this sence. Smalls are preaty decent, especially the boarding versions maybe. But it can be improved.

Maybe especially the more expensive smalls could use a boost, and maybe especially the destroyers.

 

Some thoughts though:

SUI

Wonder if it would be fun to give it the Direct Fire (CC) and Telescopic zoom (CC, 4'').  That would make it a decent 'sub' hunter.

However the heavy destroyers are not the small which needs the most love. A small with 3HP is a preaty good bonus.

Urgi

Improve the firepower of it's gun. +1 in all rangbands would be ok, linked fire 15/10/5 would make that gun a lot more scary for more opponents.

 

Tetsubo

This one I don't think needs anything in terms of power.  Flying small with Evasive Manoeuvers (+1) is difficult to destroy. But I'm a big fan that rules and lore fits. Thus it should get some kind of *GAS* attack. Adjust the price if neccesarry.

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Most of our smalls will not be affected in a huge way by the general changes (which we have seen thus far). However, most of our smalls will be totaly uneffected by the CR+DR rule and increased HP damage from CR table. Thus, actually improving them slightly. The CR+DR rule will make it slightly easier to exploit high firepower. Thus it will benefit especially the destroyer I think.

However, the heavy destroyer is effected. Earlier you would need 12 to kill a heavy destroyer in one shot, now you need only 9. But that is a actually a good thing. Why? Earlier the Heavy destroyers were almost twice as robust as other smalls, thanks to +1HP. Now the difference between 2Hp and 3HP isn't that huge. I find this to be a good thing. Why? Because now it makes it more flexible in upgarding other aspects of the unit.

However, our Heavy destroyer benefit from the fact that torpedoes ignore shields.

The new boarding rules will make corvettes and other boarding threats slightly less effective. This also is true for our Heavy destroyers.

The new flamer rules is great. The old flamers worked fine to, however the difference between bypassing Dr and bypassing CR wasn't that huge. And it was only worth doing versus a large.  Now, bypassing CR does a raging fire crittical effect. Thus, the flamers part of the Zariganies will improve. Doing a critical now does (if I read the rule correctly) 2hp damage, kills 1AP, causes 2+D3 fires. And assumingly 2 corrosive markers.

 

 

 

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On the flamers, corrossive only gives 1 marker, not 2 as previously. Also it seems like the heavy addition is gone. Which is also fine in my view. The improved streamlined gameplay of them is good. 15 dice of attacks which does 2 HP damage, kills 1 AP, adds 2+D3 fires and 1 corrosive markers is good in my view.

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2 hours ago, angelshard said:

And ignores shields, plus zarigani can now board from 2" away increasing their threat range.

Flamers: The corrosive is downgrades, so they do less damage if you only bypass DR but far more if you bypass Cr.

Plus, robot boarding now automaticly do a hard pounding critical effect if you bypass CR, which stacks very nicely with flamers...

This means that a BB which you are lucky enough to critt with both flamer AND boarding now gets

  -5HP, -4AP, 2+1D3 fires and 1 corrosive

 

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Agreed, but they were quite good at that before and they've just received to boosts, so I wouldn't be surprised if their cost got bumped back to 25 pts.

As it stands they could easily replace my corvettes completely.

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1 hour ago, angelshard said:

Agreed, but they were quite good at that before and they've just received to boosts, so I wouldn't be surprised if their cost got bumped back to 25 pts.

As it stands they could easily replace my corvettes completely.

True. But still far more fun now :)

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1 hour ago, angelshard said:

Agreed, but they were quite good at that before and they've just received to boosts, so I wouldn't be surprised if their cost got bumped back to 25 pts.

As it stands they could easily replace my corvettes completely.

True. But still far more fun now :)

 

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One other note:

Due to ALL air-ships being able to go into stratospheric flight mode, this may make the Tetsubo nice in the role of 'hunting stratospheric ships'. Especially due to the hunter (air, +1)

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The current boarding rules actually might benefit models with Terror tactics  (especially multiple modifiers). So, perhaps the Heavy Destroyers won't be as badly affected after all.

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I'm still curious how terror tactics works now, do you just add all the TT dice since its no longer specific which ship the assault dice I'd coming from? Or do you remove one every time aa shoots down enough ap to empty a ship? Or only if the amount of ap shot down means a least one ship has to be empty?

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No. It hasnt changed. Once the remaining AP gets through the AA fire, you add the extra dice as normal from each model.

If a model has no AP after AA fire then Terror Tactics can't go into affect from that model as there are no more AP from that model to terrorise the target. But the other ships are fine.

Simples

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1 hour ago, Merlin said:

No. It hasnt changed. Once the remaining AP gets through the AA fire, you add the extra dice as normal from each model.

If a model has no AP after AA fire then Terror Tactics can't go into affect from that model as there are no more AP from that model to terrorise the target. But the other ships are fine.

Simples

But now all AP is pooled. So as long as you survive with 4 AP, you will get 1AP from each ship and thus get the terror.

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1 hour ago, Merlin said:

No. It hasnt changed. Once the remaining AP gets through the AA fire, you add the extra dice as normal from each model.

If a model has no AP after AA fire then Terror Tactics can't go into affect from that model as there are no more AP from that model to terrorise the target. But the other ships are fine.

Simples

In the 2.0 rules, you could deliberately concentrate your AA at specific targets to reduce the TT-bonus (eg target 2 of a squad of 3 nakatsu, so that the AP coming in only get+2 instead of+6). In the new version, you would have to get the incoming AP down to less than the number of ships to start stripping the bonus

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38 minutes ago, Grand-Stone said:

But now all AP is pooled. So as long as you survive with 4 AP, you will get 1AP from each ship and thus get the terror.

That's what I said.

 

The fact it says "this" model means it's done on a model by model basis, and since the attacker chooses where his casualties go he can always make sure he can gain the bonus.

 

@Nazduruk_Bugzappa

In the new edition, if you want to stop Terror Tactics, you have to kill all of the AP in the Anti-Boarding Fire step. And as above, if the attacking models only lose enough AP to leave a single AP on each ship, then he gains the Bonus from the MAR on every ship.

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