Spartan Derek

Firestorm Armada 3.0 Designer Feedback Thread

471 posts in this topic

Linde, Mike, please don't let your emotions run away with you. I can see where you're coming from, but as it stands, you have both contravened your own forum TOC's in your language. I know the barrage isn't all one way, but even as volunteers, you carry the SG mantle in what you do.

For the good of all of us, everyone take a chill pill. Toxic forums kill games quicker than any level of mismanagement... 

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13 hours ago, Spartan Linde said:

Honestly @Flamebeast most of you have nothing good to say and ***** and moan no matter what is said. its not worth reading. I spend most of my forum time in the Beta forum being productive.

 

if you dont like things then move on. 

 

 

:(

 

@Spartan Linde! For some context, let me invite you in my head for a bit.

 

Quote

 

This morning, firing up my phone, checking the forums.

Ooooooh! A Spartan helmet in the designer feedback thread! Finally some notes, tidbits...

...

Oh boy.

Oooooh boy.

I don't wanna scroll down X-X

Yep. Exactly what I expected.

 

 

I'll try to be as constructive as I can, so I'll present the problem, and offer a solution.

 

The problem:

I know (think?), things are much better over on the beta forums, and there are multiple reasons for that:

-For a beta forum to function there has to be information, feedback, and a general perspective, a direction to progress. Exactly the things this non-beta community is asking for (louder and louder as time passes).

-Our (firestorm) community changes. It shrinks at places, and it grows elsewhere. If you would like to beta test the new edition, you have to take the most healthy (possibly still growing) portion of the community, and get their most engaging and social members to lead the subcommunities (?) beta efforts, and as you have told us at the Exploding Dice Radio, this exactly what you have done. The result is, that you have created an elite cub like forum for the healthy portion, and left the rest for their own devices, creating two separate echo chambers. One positive, one negative.

-Here on the dark side, *all* of us still are trying to think positive, believe me, but we are turning into badly raised attention hungry children, who are desperate for *any* feedback, and if being rude gets us some (even if it's negative), we'll go for it (and if positive feedback gives us no such thing, you can guess the general direction of things).

 

 

The solution:

Well one possible solution...

Go back to the Beta Forums (the better place), and bring us something back from there! And I don't ask you for actual crunchy bits, as you are bound by your NDAs and such.

But!

If you come to us with things like:

-Oooooh! Aquans better hold onto your swimming trunks!

This implies that faction rebalances will take place - a thing you have disclosed in the above said interview, so we already know this, but things like this won't violate anything (if they are cryptic enough), and gives us lowly plebs something to gnaw on.

 

So bring the "You better stockpile your torpedoes!" and "If I were you I'd engage diplomatic negotiations with the Dindrenzi before it's too late!", and please don't engage us this way, it's one of the better examples of a post being both rather pointless and extremely toxic. The two things us in the dark side don't need from a designer in the designer feedback thread :(

Venter likes this

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Well, the new blog post says some stuff. Nothing really surprising, I'm glad to hear we'll be seeing some Youtube stuff. I'm not too thrilled with the list of stuff that 3.0 supposedly addresses, but I think I've discussed those points at length already. I'm worried (as I usually am about change, haha) about Linking being a target of speeding things up. I would be good with just about any solution that maintains the individual-to-squad balance in that it isn't always 100% better to fire as a squad. And command and control is something that is... eh. I get the point of adding it- it feels a lot more thematic and useful in Planetfall, but having the same system in each game ties them together. I'm excited to see some legit discussion about it, though.

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Really Hive the list of what they're addressing pretty much ticks off most of my pet peeves and concerns - that linked fire thing is great but it slows the game down - some people can't juggle numbers so quickly - and it causes all kinds of issues on degradation especially where big ships may have 2 or 3 guns that can link 

Little dig at the end about the forums, and I did chuckle a little at them 'reading all our posts' but on topic - that blog seems pretty much all good news 

I do really want to stress I really want to see 3.0 rules before the KS that's gonna be a huge thing if I want to sell it locally 

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I find the choice of factions for the next starter interesting. Had hoped for Sorylian vs. Relrhoza, but for the "need to aquiere new players" point of view a valid one.

I hope the command system gets more depth than the Planetfall variant. Speeding the game up is always a good thing, but dont let changes to linking make the game into the "dice massacre"-Taskforce. :)

Now speed up the desing process, i dont want to wait that long for 3.0. :D

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The problem with the "must acquire new players" view (which is, in itself, perfectly valid) is that Spartan are going to have to get a whole bunch of people stocking the product in order to get more players, and I really don't see how that's going to happen without a major change in they way they operate. The last Spartan product I saw in a shop was a copy of Return of the Overseers in a bargain bin. There's no confidence in them among LGS owners, and Spartan will need to get that back if they're going to grow the playerbase, since nobody is going to buy the product if they don't see the product, or even know that it exists.

murphy'slawofcombat likes this

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Not liking this at all.  Fixing linking?  Nothing wrong with that at all! 

We're going to wind up with some kind of craptastic Taskforce/Dystopian Wars hybrid that makes the horror that was V1.5 look like fun, and the game as we love it will not survive this $#!t-show.

murphy'slawofcombat likes this

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There  we have it! The communication we were longing for. I don't want to go into the rabbit hole if I like the contents or not, but the direction we got from it is rather clear: Neil wants to take the helm and direct the Firestorm universe towards his personal vision. This is a good thing as a centralised vision driving the universe and the rules may speed things up (if the very unlikely event of him getting distracted by the next shiny thing doesn't come to pass ;)). I really liked this blog, because my expectations can be finally set accordingly (and I don't necessarily mean low, but with all these strong implications of Neil so passionately disliking the old FFG's direction, I think I can safely assume that if there's anything I'm unsure about the new system, probably opposite of their methods/goals will happen for better or worse).

Maybe the visual paralell for the progression of the FSA system could be the aquan and the relthoza ship design aesthetics? I wish we could get our hands on the new rules soon to confirm this :)

I really hope this direction will really help with the influx of fresh ensigns. Everything else can be houseruled :)

RuleBritannia likes this

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I liked the communication and done the servey.

I understand the kickstarter may not be what I am wanting or it may be 

But I am excited to find out 

Haven't had that for a while so goooood :D

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I've never been a Armada player- virtually none of the model designs appeal to me (odd considering I love almost all planetfall designs...).  However- Works Raptor fleet has been pulling my attention for a while and the 2 new races intrigue me.  I was a dinosaur nut as a child and a Dr Who Silurian fan so the mention of a Saurian Enclave caught my attention.  I'm always Nurgle Player in 40k, so "Nurgle" ships for FA?  Yeah, count me in.

 

It all depends on the rewards and what I can afford- but based on my experience with the DW KS- this is a really GOOD thing for Firestorm.

azrael and Marden like this

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OK my  2 cents worth ...... I have been with spartan games from almost the beginning. I've got V1  V1.5 and 2.0  seen lots of changes. I do not agree with how Spartan is handling this rule change.  I may be walking a thin line here and I could be bumped off this site like Alexmann was. but here it goes 1 rule changes should be talked about and ideas collected from this forum   2  Beta test should not take more than 2 months even with unpaid volenteers.   3  constant up dates with this body should be done on a weekly basis. 4  at the end of Beta test  a ruff rule set should be given to this forum for discussion.  5 changes or improvements to rules set should be tested by Beta taking no more than 1 month and with up dates on the new rules posted on this forum  weekly. it is obvious that this is not how the boss wants to work. It is his company and can run it as he see fit . I'm not arguing that point.  but I am worried that this game will not survive long without our input. I have sunk a lot of money into this game and I do not want to move on to another game system. I do like this game I love the models and mostly I do love painting them.  I feel that Spartan is not hearing us " the fan base " AND YOU NEED TO  HEAR US. WE BUY YOUR PRODUCTS. by keeping US happy it will keep you happy. Not saying we are always right but we are the ones that play and enjoy this system.  as of yet ( unless there is V3 posted someplace) I haven't seen the new changes and that is wrong. this forum should have had some idea of what the new rules are by now .  I agree with Commodor Jones, Flamebeast, Xerkics, and Child9

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