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Spartan Derek

Firestorm Armada 3.0 Designer Feedback Thread

597 posts in this topic

51 minutes ago, CoreHunter said:

no matter the scoring method a bonus to hit is going to be an overwhelming advantage.

I think we will have to agree to disagree on that count.

A bonus to hit is not going to do you any good if by the time you are done hitting the enemy, you already lost because they scored their objectives and you did not.

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the problem is, is it's hard to score objectives if your ships are dead, scoring and killing are not mutually exclusive, they are in fact quite heavily tied to one another...

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let guess that only a bunch of specialized ships can get regular Focus Fire without spend Command Points: 

Destroyers 

Like some ships can get free Boarding without spend Command Points:

Assault <Ship> .

The issue here is how many ships would shoot with free focus fire.

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I suggested (more than once) that if the devs wanted to keep Focus Fire in Planetfall, then they should remove it as a general rule and add it in as a MAR for select units. You could even template it to Focus Fire[Range Bands] for further control.  In this fashion, for Armada you might see Destroyers get Focus Fire[Medium, Long] which would grant them the ability to use Focus Fire in these two range bands.  This is, somewhat, similar to the weapon systems changes that the designers have put in.  However, it also easily allows certain ships (which I would argue should be *most* ships) to not have access to Focus Fire at all.  It is, all in all, a much more granular and flexible approach to the problem instead of adopting weapon system names that don't correspond to logic (Tertiary systems on a ship with only 1/2 weapon systems, for example, or Primary systems that are obviously not the main gun).  I greatly dislike Focus Fire in general, and would much rather they remove it from Planetfall than bring it to Armada too.  That said, if it's going to be in, there's much easier ways to balance the mechanics than coming up with an entire new system of weapon classifications that effect random other things in the game too.

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4 hours ago, Paradomutante said:

Focus fire could be ok, if it had a drawback, like the orders in the old BFG. Hell i preffer a whole order system with Pros/Cons that a Command Points one. 

 

The drawback is spend a command point and you need to be in a specific range band. That's it.

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4 hours ago, blut_und_glas said:

I think we will have to agree to disagree on that count.

A bonus to hit is not going to do you any good if by the time you are done hitting the enemy, you already lost because they scored their objectives and you did not.

Considering most objectives require you to activate by them,  you can blast the relevant ship and deny that way. Alternatively: table your opponent and win through TV gained via ship destruction.

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18 hours ago, Paladin21 said:

I suggested (more than once) that if the devs wanted to keep Focus Fire in Planetfall, then they should remove it as a general rule and add it in as a MAR for select units. You could even template it to Focus Fire[Range Bands] for further control.  In this fashion, for Armada you might see Destroyers get Focus Fire[Medium, Long] which would grant them the ability to use Focus Fire in these two range bands.  -shortened-

How is this different from simply adding more dice in these range bands?

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On exploding dice, moving from 4+ to 3+ increases the average successes per dice from .8 to 1.  You could certainly add 25% more dice to get the same effect if that's how you wanted to go.  However, there are secondary effects to that approach such as the model always getting the benefit of the extra dice (ie, doesn't need a command point, for whatever that's worth), increased variability in successes due to extra dice and the exploding dice, and different falloff curves for effectiveness after damage.  I'd honestly rather they just do away with the whole idea, but if they really want Focus Fire in, I'd rather they do so in a templated rule instead of attaching it to weapon types.  There are a number of secondary balancing considerations to be made with the new weapon type approach that would not have to take place with a templated rule approach.

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Thank you for explaining. It sounds like only the mighty Mathhammer knows the true difference between the options (but command point usage is a good point!).

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I got to say im underwhelmed so far. Even tho a lot of the kickstarter models so far have been awesome unfortunately the new rules largely feel like a kick in the teeth. I dont know how to reconcile those feelings. Im still waiting for those Blogs that @Spartan Neil has promised to post explaining the logic behind the new changes . Im very much waiting to hear them because stuff like % Fleet construction, nonsensical deployment, multi coloured dice and variety of things that are not stream lining but either over complicating or hurting the balance of the game with no sense or purpose behind them brought forward from planet fall and the like  all look like they will have a negative impact the enjoyment of the game for me.

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i'm almost positive the first rendition will have a myriad of issues :D 

I just hope the revesions are swift and helpful, there is still a ton of potential here, it just needs some sifting and fine tuning

(1.5 was a disaster, 2.0 was awesome, hopefully 3.0 transitions out of it's 1.5 stage quickly :))

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So, dumb question, but... With the Natural Allies all pairing up, the Kurak support fleets will be Xelocians, Ryushi, and Tarakians... and unless something changes, Zenian League support fleets will consist of... the Kedorians. Are the Illosians slated to be coming out in any fashion or timing to prevent this? Is there any other Zenian fleet planned beyond that to even up the odds?

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6 hours ago, Hive said:

So, dumb question, but... With the Natural Allies all pairing up, the Kurak support fleets will be Xelocians, Ryushi, and Tarakians... and unless something changes, Zenian League support fleets will consist of... the Kedorians. Are the Illosians slated to be coming out in any fashion or timing to prevent this? Is there any other Zenian fleet planned beyond that to even up the odds?

Kedirians, Illosians, and omnidyne?

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A "sampler", whatever that means.  I don't know that I've ever been involved in a Kickstarter where so many of the stretch goals are "opportunity to give us more money for this thing", generally they're free product upgrades or something like that.

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Ok as much as I feel this Kstarter is going bad - sure it will fund, almost certain - but the amount and backers will not be what they wanted 

SG1 10k  - opens an add one
SG2 20k - Freebie to £65.00 and above (the standard level) - the above
SG3 25K - opens an add on

SG4 30k - opens an add on

SG5 40k - Freebie to £150 and above (the deluxe level - actually most common oddly)

SG6 45k lots of add on's and SOME freebies to £250+

SG7 50k - add on 
SG8 60k (so about 150% of whats already been pledged) unlocks the Illosians and adds SOME frebies to the £320/£290 +

I'll stop here, I was looking to defend Spartan, but now I kinda agree

The stretch goals are mostly adding add ons, These pledges arn't great value

£72 shipped here in UK for the 2 player set - I can pick up the current 2 player set for £74.99 shipped 

£2.99 more and I can SEE v3 out live and kicking, Ok I don't get a map or my name in size 3 font in book

The other bigger pledges don't really hold the value for me, so this KS is dead to me....I'll wait for V3 and see if locally I can get interest 

 

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41 minutes ago, Sniddy said:

SG5 40k - Freebie to £150 and above (the deluxe level - actually most common oddly)

The 150 pound level is probably the most common because it has free shipping(big deal outside UK) and enough upgrades that it still has great value if split between 2 people.

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5 hours ago, Sniddy said:

Yeh I thouhg free shipping wasn't till £290+ but you are right, in both respects, except 'great' value I'd question 

Its a 65£ starterbox, 2 30£ level massive ships (the stations is not available as an add-on), 20£ asteroid box, 15£ Acrylic tokenbox, 5£ rulebook hardback upgrade and shipping worth anything from 7£-40£ just for the starter set. That add up to around 165£ pounds of stuff and shipping worth 20-30£ for most customers. Not the best value i have seen in a kickstarter but not bad either. 

The stretch goals are where this option really shines as Squadron Leader (150£ level) is the cheapest option that gets lots of free stuff from these, all of which would also get free shipping.

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