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Grimenart

Official Thread: League Of Italian States

1,126 posts in this topic

(Edit from Spartan Games)

 

With so many sub-forums and threads, we're trying to give the Spartan Games Community a bit of a tidy-up. Let's try and keep to the official threads and see how we go.

 

Who are the League of Italian States?

 

“The Mediterranean will be ours again, Cardinal. We will have a new empire, even if we cannot yet divine who will be its Caesar…”
– Lord Marco Santini, envoy of the King of Sardinia, to the Papal nuncio (ambassador), Turin, 1867


Of all the great powers of the world, perhaps none are as skilled in the arts of political chicanery and deadly focused violence as the Italian League. The fractious Italian peninsula has long been the scene of wars, dynastic struggles and political infighting, and such matters still exist today, although to a lesser degree, as the one thing that unites the otherwise disparate forces in Italian politics is their desire for territorial expansion – the League fancies itself as the forerunners of a new Italian empire dominating the Mediterranean basin. The Italians spent many years capitalising upon the weaknesses of their neighbours, taking only what they could wrest without provoking outright war.

For more information on the League of Italian States, you can read their full page on our website here:

http://www.spartanga...-italian-states

 

(End edit)

 

Hello everyone, I've decided to start topic to discuss italian forces. Yeah, I know there is not even a concept art for now, but we all have imagination, right? Italy for me is always Rome in the first place (sorry for Italian players from other cities, by this statement I mean no offence). And here we come with some interesting way to see possible design of Italian forces. Rome is the center of Catholicism and the might of Catholic Church is not to be questioned. And Rome has a great history - S.P.Q.R, caesars, rise and fall of Roman Empire - I've been always fascinated with history of Italy. So basicly, I see two major possible concepts - Catholic or Ancient Rome. Knowing Spartan Games they will come up with something great, and can possibly unite this two conepts or come with their own. But anyway, I've come with list of possible names for the League of Italian States. I for one really like the Ancient Rome theme, so here it is (I don't pretend that is the best way to actually name ships, though I think that if I will be catched by the design of the faction it will be my naming list :) ):

Dreadnought IMO should be the Cesare or Caesar (if names will go in Latin which I prefer cause it is both for the ancient and Catholiscism). Gaius Iulius Caesar is great too, as he is the one who give the name to the title.
Battleship for me looks definitely like Rex or Dictator.
Cruiser - Legatus
Carrier - Senatus
Gunship - Consul
Destroyers - Praetor
Not so sure about small ships though, and leaving it for the future resolve.

Flying machines for me are inspired by the Renaissance and some da Vinchi concepts.
Huge one Machiavelli for sure.
Sky Fortress can be Leonardo da Vinchi or Cardinale
Bomber Lorenzo de'Medici (however not sure about this one)
for other flyers - advices will be much appreciated, though I see them inspired by Renaissance I don't know this age very well, so i have some troubles in naming scout ships and tiny ones. :mellow:

Land forces again back to S.P.Q.R.
Sonething huge and unique - Centurio (personally I hope for the heavily armored Metzger like robot, but roman in design with centurion-like helmet on top, though I doubt it will be the robot for the Italians.)
light tanks - Hastatus
medium tank - Princeps
heavy tank - Triarius
This three makes up for the heavy infantry of Republic times
mobile airfield - Aquilifer
artillery - Onagres

Basicly this is all. Comments, suggestion, criticism - they are all welcome.

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Well, historically, there were some naming conventions, which might be appopriate for the DW universe as well.

Battleships tended to be named after historical figures, e.g. the various Gulio Cesare, Dante Alighieri, Vittorio Emanuele etc. Cruisers were usually named after geographical features and regions, e.g. Livorno, Liguria, etc.

Aircraft generally bore names of animals, e.b. Sparviero (bomber), Falco, Veltro (fighters), or concepts, e.g. Folgore.

The question is - how important are the Vatican and the Papal States? Given that there is no unification in the DW universe, they are not dissolved, but the situation prior to that was that the Pope did not wield as much worldly power as in the middle ages and was more of a strong moral authority, as suggested by the fluff. That said, it would not be too out of place for the states to name their ships on an individual basis, and use local and regional names if they paid for it. One should consider that Italian Nationalism is a pretty modern thing, and the sense of national unity did not fully take hold until decades after the unification wars in real life; it would be a reasonable assumption that petty rivalries and particular interests of the member nations still are strong.

So, I would suggest the following, slightly amending your concept:

- Name any large vessels after "supranational" patrons, be it from Roman antiquity - the cost of such vessels might be such that the individual states would have to join their financial forces to build them.

- Use historical figures of the various member states for cruisers, or the names of regions.

- Smaller vessels might be unnamed for their large number.

For class names, using the names you suggested would be fine; it might, however, limit you to only using names of historical persons who held that rank famously.

Reach likes this

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Thanks for the reference about Italian naming traditions! I will consider it in future.

I think that Vatican and Pope are pretty Important considering Spartan Games web - I mean:

“The Mediterranean will be ours again, Cardinal. We will have a new empire, even if we cannot yet divine who will be its Caesar…”

– Lord Marco Santini, envoy of the King of Sardinia, to the Papal nuncio (ambassador), Turin, 1867

For me it's definitly looks like Church is strong.

About historical persons - Rome can be proud, because eternal city raised many sons worthy of remembering, so I think it will be fine. Anyway, thanks for the feedback!

Just remembered, I think all Italian ships should be able to ram their enemies! :) (just like the trireme.)

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Yeah, I know I tend to sound like a partypooper, getting too much history into an alternate history game.

Obviously, the Vatican might have quite some clout, possibly being seen as a "neutral" and the highest moral authority, so the Pope might actually draw the strings, unknown to the other nations. Would be a nice play on "How many divisions does the Pope have at his command?" :lol:

If you wish to go for the Roman Antiquity thing, which is a good one (classical antiquity being my favourite historical period after the industrial age), you might consider the italianised versions of the Latin words. But it could work equally well with the originals, either. Whatever takes your fancy, I guess.

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The one of the biggest impressions about Pope and the military was given to me by the Medieval 2 Total War, where Pope was an actual commander. On horse. In armor. With weapons. I am not sure if I will be able to forget such a sight. And seriosly, about the divisions - again some work from my imagination - elite swiss guard with some steampunk-like power armour. Because It is dystopia after all, so why can't The Holy See have an army or two under command? I can actually imagine recreating of the crusades by Vatikan (though I'am not sure who will be their target at first).

And about "partypooper" (definition of which I've searched in the google) - by thanks I actually meant it. I really appreciate the reference, and actualy considering it. I already knew which cruiser (if i wil buy any :) ) will be my favourite - Toscana (for some unknown reason I simply love this place, though I've never been there).

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And about "partypooper" (definition of which I've searched in the google) - by thanks I actually meant it. I really appreciate the reference, and actualy considering it.

I didn't think you were offended or something, no worries! Just wanted to make it clear that I don't just want to spoil the fun, but it is something of a subconscious obsession with me to anchor alternate historical games in the sociohistorical context. For example, over on the Russian ship naming thread - I have some family history linked with Russia and a strong personal fascination for the country and the culture, but I would have taken the easy way and just used historical Russian warship names, possibly from the 1788 war against Sweden, the 1877 one against Turkey and the Russo-Japanese war, instead of mythological references, just because there were so few ships named that way,

I know that can come across as know-it-all, spoil-the-fun. Don't want that, but I am uncomfortable with stuff that deviates notably from the customs of the time in question.

I already knew which cruiser (if i wil buy any :) ) will be my favourite - Toscana (for some unknown reason I simply love this place, though I've never been there).

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last time i read the background material, it described italian vessels as floating works of art with long range firepower, so as not to damage them

also that Venezia is one massive mega-ship

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So, no ramming then? Such a shame. But if instead we will get really impressive ships, with arcs and columns than it's a fair change. Though it means my naming concept failed entirely :D

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Land forces again back to S.P.Q.R.

Sonething huge and unique - Centurio (personally I hope for the heavily armored Metzger like robot, but roman in design with centurion-like helmet on top, though I doubt it will be the robot for the Italians.)

light tanks - Hastatus

medium tank - Princeps

heavy tank - Triarius

This three makes up for the heavy infantry of Republic times

mobile airfield - Aquilifer

artillery - Onagres

Surely the light tanks should be the light infantry of the legions, Veles or Leves. Then have Hatatus and Princeps for the mediums and artillery, Equite for the land ship and Triarius for the mobile airfield.

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Though I can agree with naming light tanks after light infantry (however I named all the armored units after heavy infantry because tanks are heavy and armored, even the light ones), I can't agree with naming artillery after Princeps, they are heavy infantry after all, not ranged one.

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To be honest, the more I think about a Papal Army, the more attractive it seems to me. Although a Swiss Guard Army is cool, I think a monastic order centered on operating these vehicles would be pretty awesome. What is your opinion on Catholic-style naming? Perhaps for the Landship, St Angelus, just like the fort in Rome. Maybe, St Peter or the Sacred Heart for the Dreadnought?

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As I mentioned, I think of Catholic-style as the second way for naming units, so I think it is great idea :) About monastic order - I just imagene some knight-style robots (yes, i again talking about the robots) almost like metzger, though with much more crusade style, and really smaller, around the size of medium tank, or even the small one. As for the names - history of Catholic Church provided us with wide variety of peoples. So I think the main question is to choose the best. :) Although, the fact that it's better to choose only from those who was born in Italy narrows the list. Maybe I will give it a thought and form a second list during weekend.

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I like this a lot! I wish we could have had this discussion before the EotBS came out; the names are terribly unreal, and were either picked from a dictionary or by a non-Japanese (who speaks/understands only a modicum of the language.

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I am afraid we are in no position to choose names for the ship classes :ph34r: As for the EotBS I've tried to look in the dictionary and have no success in trying to understand what class names mean :) (actually there was some translation, but they didn't make any sense to me in most cases) . Though there is some really nice names (personally I like Tsukuyomi which can mean moon, or the moon god of their mythology) But apart from japanese, I'm not sure If discussing possible names of ships will change actual names. However Spartan Games is great company, so if really many of they customers will agree on some naming concept (wich I find impossible :D cause every one has they own opinion, right?) they will consider it.

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It was the destruction of the parish church in Perugia that started the largest armament program in Italy’s history. The Prussian army would stop at nothing for their goal of Paris. The Prussians burnt everything in the town, in an attempt to weaken the resolve of Zouave and Swiss Guard defenders. The sacred Crucifix, the holy Chalice, all was destroyed before the invaders. The young Jesuit priest, christened Jules Solvay was helpless before the destruction of his church.

It was on that day that he swore that he would never again be helpless in the defence of the Church. The livelihood of Christians and the protection of holy places all over the planet could not be left to whims of marauding Kings and Presidents.

With cool rage in his heart, he travelled with all haste back to Rome. Solvay proposed a plan to a congregation of his peers. They would build bigger machines; ones that would drive away the bandits. Great moving cathedrals that could safely house thousands of relics; huge monasteries that could transport thousands of refugees away from war zones; great mortars that would keep looters at bay; these were the machines he proposed. They would outfit the Swiss Guard and Zouaves that were the mockery of the peninsula with the most advanced machines seen yet.

This was the plan they brought before His Holiness. Ratified in the Papal Bull, Protegens ecclesia, and with the oversight of the Jesuits, huge airships and towering carriers were constructed. Never again would the sanctity of the Church be defiled by war.

The pride of this re-armament was the mighty Sky Fortress “St Ignatius”, named in honour of their order’s founder. Flanked by the might airships “Perugia”, named for the start of the re-armament and “Our Lady of Mercy”, to whom their prayers for mercy went, nobody would challenge the might of Rome.

This will be the back story for my LoIS force

I envision the Airships as giant cathedrals-turned-airships. Similar to 40k, but instead of a gothic style, I was thinking more along the lines of a Baroque sort of look.

Grimenart likes this

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The Italians could technically also go the ugly route... that is... they have a history of scratch built vehicles, combining whole ridiculous weapons on unsuitable hulls.

Check this one for starters:

10ws1on.jpg

http://www.cityofart.net/bship/rn_faadibruno.html

Heavy Naval turret + Garbage Scow = Instant floating batteries

Oh those crazy Italians never change :rolleyes:

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That is sooo ugly it's almost cool. One hit would probably take it out, though, seeing as it has an open turret

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Reach, good story, like it. Seems fitting, and I also hope for cathedral-like units :)

Mekat, so basic scratch build? I think they wealth is not that bad during DW timeline. They will not use "junk" units, won't they? :wacko:

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Not so much scratch-built, but the Italians can be fairly pratical (though not always sensible) when it comes to building things.

In WWII they needed something to deal with heavy tanks so they took a pretty decent heavy AA-Gun they already had and placed it on the modified chassis of one of their medium tanks (though to the rest of the world it was a light tank). Never mind that the gun was almost as big as the chassis and it had barely enough power to move it around. Heck there was so little space left on it that it could only carry 6 rounds of ammo ...

Despite all it's shortcomings though, it kinda worked... but it was a case of too little too late -_-

If anything I'm reinforcing the idea of the Italians being the 'glass-cannon' force :P

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I am just envisioning that the Italian air units being a mixture of helical-screw helicopters and ornithopters - the designs of Leonado da Vinci 'modernized' to the steampunk era!

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I am just envisioning that the Italian air units being a mixture of helical-screw helicopters and ornithopters - the designs of Leonado da Vinci 'modernized' to the steampunk era!

That I want to see :)

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This is how I imagine the Italian Sky Fortress to look.

scan00032.jpg

It's basically a Aircraft Carrier, with giant thrusters and a baroque church for the command tower.

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No thrusters, please. Osprey-like tilting helical screw propulsion systems. I'd like that. I'd like that a lot.

From a designer's (and art fanatic's) point of view, I'd imagine the Italian units to look very fluent, very elegant, yet effective. Think of the Nautilus from the The League Of Extraordinary Gentlemen movie. Think of Naboo fighters from Star Wars. Think of Cid's Highwind from Final Fantasy.

The seas are full of ironclad bricks of death out there. Time to show these cretins how to fight in style.

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